Quote: Robert Gagnon on ‘Once Saved, Always Saved’

“There is a long-standing division within Christ’s church as to whether salvation, once acquired, can ever be lost. Some believe in an eternal security “once saved, always saved” (OSAS) doctrine. I once believed that but I think the overwhelming weight of the New Testament speaks against it. Persistent and unrepentant sin of an egregious sort, I believe, can get one excluded from eternal life. There are too many texts that make the point clear: for example (and I am making no attempt at being exhaustive), 

John 15:2, 6; Rom 8:12-14; 11:20-22; 1 Cor 3:17; 6:9-10 with ch. 5; 9:24-10:13; 15:1; 2 Cor 6:1; Gal 3:1-5 with 5:2-4; 5:19-21; 6:7-9; 1 Thess 4:3-8; Col 1:23; Eph 4:17-19; 5:3-6; 1 Tim 3:6; 4:1; Heb 2:1-4; 3:7-4:13; 6:4-6; 10:26-29; 12:15-17; 2 Pet 2:20-22; 3:17; Rev 2:5; 3:3-5; 3:16; 22:19; Matt 5:13, 29-30; 6:15; 18:23-35; 22:11-13; 25:14-30 (= Luke 19:11-27); Mark 4:16-19; 13:13, 20-22, 32- 37; Luke 13:6-9; 14:28-33.

Developing the argument for this would require another paper at another time. Suffice it to say, no one can know for certain when a believer crosses the line into falling away. Not even in the case of the incestuous man could Paul make that call; Paul simply referred to him ambiguously as “someone who goes by the name of brother” (1 Cor 5:11). But he could warn the offender, as he frequently warned all his followers, that an immoral life put one at high risk of not inheriting God’s kingdom. By way of analogy, a parent can’t say for certain, if his or her child skates out into thin ice, precisely when (or even if) the child will fall through the ice. Nevertheless, the parent can warn the child of the grave danger involved in traveling onto the thin ice. It is not a question of earning salvation (which the New Testament authors clearly state cannot be done) but rather of letting Christ live within oneself, to which faith (if it is true faith) always says “yes.”

The oft-cited Rom 8:35-39 listing all the things that “will not separate us from the love of Christ” or “the love of God in Christ” speaks only of things external to ourselves: persecution, a deprivation of material goods, angels and other spiritual powers, death. The remark “nor any other creation [or: created thing]” (8:39) appears to refer primarily to the material structures of non- human creation or at least created things external to one’s own self (compare 8:18-23, which distinguishes “creation” from the sons or children of God). The lists do not include “a life lived under the control of sin operating in human members” and for good reason: Paul has already stated clearly that such a life leads to death (6:16, 21; 8:12-14).”

– Robert A. J. Gagnon, link

Feedback: “A Christian Can’t Lose Their Salvation Because They’re a ‘New Creation’”

A little bit later than I was expecting, but here is this week’s chosen feedback:

Question: “Regeneration is to be made new.  Paul says in 2 Cor 5:17 that we are a new creation.  How in the world can such a change become undone?  It can’t.  Plain and simple.  Paul also says in Rom 8:1 that there is no condemnation.  If you believe otherwise, you are contradicting the Word of God.  God said that He will never leave us or forsake us.  How in the world can salvation then be lost?  It can’t.  If you believe otherwise, you are calling God a liar and denying His truth.  The truth will set you free.”

Answer: Thanks for taking the time to write in.  Without going into too much depth, I just have a few quick points to make.

As I see it, the Arminian position is not that regeneration can be “undone”, per se.  It is more along the lines of believing that just as that which is born physically can die physically, so that which is born spiritually can die spiritually (Cf. John 15:1-6; Romans 1:1-2:11; 6:1-23; 8:12-13; 1 Corinthians 6; Galatians 5:19-21; 6:7-9; Ephesians 5:1-7; Hebrews 5:11-6:8; 10:26-39; James 1:12-15; 4:4; 2 Peter 2:20-22).

Secondly, the way I see it, arguing that a person cannot lose their salvation simply because they are a “new creation” (as 2 Corinthians 5:17 says) is circular reasoning, as being a new creation is specifically conditioned upon being “in Christ” (as 2 Corinthians 5:17 also says). So you have to first assume ‘once in Christ, always in Christ’ (which is the very point in question) in order to prove ‘once a new creation, always a new creation’, which in turn proves ‘once saved, always saved’. In effect, you have to assume that 2 Corinthians 5:17 teaches OSAS in order to prove that 2 Corinthians 5:17 teaches OSAS.

Same goes for Romans 8:1, as there now being “no condemnation” is specifically conditioned upon being “in Christ” (as Romans 8:1 also says).  So once again, you have to first assume ‘once in Christ, always in Christ’ in order to prove ‘now no condemnation, always no condemnation’, which in turn proves ‘once saved, always saved’. In effect, you have to assume that Romans 8:1 teaches OSAS in order to prove that Romans 8:1 teaches OSAS.

Lastly, as far as I can see, your reference to God’s promise to “never leave us or forsake us” has little Scriptural basis insofar as actually providing assurance of salvation.  Of the four instances that those words are spoken in Scripture (three times in the Old, once in the New Testament), not once do they have anything to do with assurance of salvation specifically, nor even salvation generally.

Best regards,

Arminian

10 Questions for Calvinists

10 Questions for Calvinists

1. Can God genuinely desire the salvation of those whom He, from eternity, unconditionally determined not to save, and is, in the words of Calvin, “pleased to exclude” and “doom to destruction”?  Or in the case of those who eschew the more passive doctrine of preterition and opt for the more active doctrine of reprobation, I ask: can God genuinely desire the salvation of those whom He has specifically created for the express purpose of destroying, who are, to quote Calvin, “doomed from the womb to certain death, whereby God is glorified by their destruction”?

2. If God has indeed causally determined and decreed all that comes to pass, isn’t it incoherent to think that our prayers influence God’s answers to our prayers?  Further, wouldn’t prayer be like someone putting on a sock puppet, and then having the sock puppet ask him to do something?  And to extend the analogy even further, wouldn’t God’s answer/s to prayer be like someone answering a request that he had his own sock puppet ask himself?

3. Regarding the Parable of the Sower (Luke 8:4-18), is the Calvinistic doctrine of Irresistible Grace compatible with Satan actively stealing away the Word of God (the ‘seed’) from people to prevent them from believing (Luke 8:12)?  In other words, wouldn’t it be pointless for Satan to steal the Word from people, when these very people whom he is attempting to prevent believing cannot believe anyway, due to Total Depravity, and indeed, cannot believe until after they are already regenerated?

4. Regarding Luke 22:14-23, is the Calvinistic doctrine of Limited Atonement compatible with the fact that Judas Iscariot – who would have been better off had he never been born (Mark 14:21), and whom Jesus called a ‘devil’ (John 6:70) – was among those for whom Jesus Christ said He gave His body and shed His blood?  If so, wouldn’t that mean that Judas Iscariot is among the elect?

5. God specifically states that there were sins that He “did not command or decree” (Jer. 19:5).  Indeed, these sins did not even “come into my [God’s] mind” (Jer. 19:5; cf. Jer. 7:30-31; 32:35).  If God has indeed causally determined and decreed all that comes to pass, isn’t it incoherent to believe that He has causally determined and decreed sins that He did not command or decree, indeed, sins that did not even come into His mind to command or decree?  Further, does the fact that these sins occurred without God first decreeing them mean that the sins were not under God’s sovereign rule?

6. In 1 Samuel 23, David learned that Saul was plotting harm against him (vv. 7-9), and so inquired of God as to 1) whether the people of Keilah would surrender him into Saul’s hand, and 2) whether Saul would indeed come to Keilah.  Regarding both inquiries, God answered in the affirmative: Saul would come to Keilah, and the people of Keilah would surrender David into Saul’s hand (vv. 10-12).  David and his men swiftly fled from Keilah (v. 13), and even though Saul sought David every day, God would not surrender David into his hand (v. 14).  According to this passage, it would appear that God had foreknowledge of events that, in fact, never came to pass.  Doesn’t this passage contradict the Calvinistic tenet that God can foreknow the future only if He has already causally determined said future?  On the Calvinist view, if the above-stated events never came to pass, then surely God did not foreordain (or even permit) them to come to pass, so how then could God have foreknowledge of events that never came to pass?

7. The Apostle Paul states that “those who are perishing… refused to love the truth and so be saved” (2 Thes. 2:10; emphasis added).  Even the Hyper-Calvinist John Gill said of this passage, “the reason therefore of these men’s perishing is not the decree of God, nor even want of the means of grace, the revelation of the Gospel, but their rejection and contempt of it” (emphasis added).  Isn’t the obvious implication that those who are perishing, in spite of the fact that they do ultimately perish, had a legitimate chance of being saved?

8. In the Bible, Christians are described as having “died to sin”(Rom. 6:2; cf. Rom. 6:7, 8, 11; 7:4-6; Gal 2:19; Col. 2:20; 3:3; 2 Tim. 2:11).  Before conversion, the unregenerate are obviously described as being “dead in trespasses and sins” (Eph. 2:1; cf. Col. 2:13). Calvinists (eg., Boice and Ryken) describe the spiritually dead as having “all the passive properties belonging to a corpse” in that “like a spiritual corpse, he is unable to make a single move toward God, think a right thought about God, or even respond to God”.  If being dead in sin entails not being able to make a single move toward God or even respond to God, does being dead to sin entail not being able to make a single move toward sin or even respond to sin?

9. Regarding the Apostle Paul’s warning to be sober-minded, watchful, and to resist the devil (1 Pet. 5:8-9), is the Calvinistic doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints (which entails ‘inevitable perseverance’, ‘once saved, always saved’, and if anyone apostatizes, they were ‘never saved to begin with’) compatible with Satan actively prowling around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour (1 Pet. 5:8-9)?  In other words, wouldn’t it be pointless for Satan to seek to devour people whose salvation cannot possibly be put in jeopardy?  And even if he actually does successfully ‘devour’ someone, wouldn’t that be sure proof that the person was never saved to begin with, and thus render the act of ‘devouring’ futile?

10. John Calvin taught what is known as ‘evanescent grace’ (Institutes, 3.2.11).  Calvin thus taught that God bestows grace on the reprobate (or non-elect) and implants faith in them that is “so similar to the elect” that sometimes, there is virtually “no difference” between the elect and the non-elect.  Calvin further taught that, “In the elect alone he implants the living root of faith, so that they persevere even to the end”.  In other words, true saving faith only proves to be truly saving if it perseveres to the very end. In light of this, is it possible for a Calvinist to have true assurance of salvation?  Doesn’t this doctrine actually undermine the Biblical markers for assurance?  How can someone know that his present faith is genuine, if genuine faith only proves to be genuine if it perseveres to the very end?  How can a person be sure that the inner witness of the Holy Spirit is not an “inferior operation of the Spirit” which “afterwards proves evanescent,” the “better to convict them, and leave them without excuse”? Can a person even have assurance by producing fruit, considering that Calvin taught that the reprobate, through evanescent grace, “may for several years… produce fruit”?